First time reaching out for help in this kind of way

[stevens]

I need perspective and advice. I have been married 11 years now in a tumultuous relationship. I am confused and trying to cope with several different issues at once. I am resentful about my situation but not normally a resentful person. To try and make a long story short, I have a very talented 9 year piano player and all around sweet child. My spouse is very dedicated to her training to the point that she abuses my daughter verbally, emotionally, and at times physically. On top of that we have never seen eye to eye on how piano even got started. Our relationship issues have been going on since we were dating but anything piano has compounded the tension and stress in our family to this possibly ending the relationship. My wife has many many good qualities but it has been very difficult to keep those in perspective and I have become focused on the negatives that are in our relationship. I feel my personal feelings have been run rough shod over and yet I am blamed for being anti-piano. She wont accept responsibility for how her actions and choices have caused me to not be very supportive which is what is angering her (among many things). On top of my personal issues with piano is the actual abuse/destructive anger that I have been standing up too. I hate feeling like I am walking on eggshells, the constant criticism, willful ignorance, destructive anger, and other negative emotions that storm through the family. I feel helpless because there is no perfect day. There is good and bad in each day but whenever something triggers her anger someone else is always to blame for her feelings. I do not know how to use my agency/choice to make powerful choices that seem to make a difference. I realize that I cannot control everything in life nor have it be perfectly the way I want it, but subconsciously I probably dont get that since I wait and hope for things to change.

I am a passive person by nature and have been in therapy for many years dealing with assertiveness, anxiety, depression, and other issues. I am happy to say that I have made wonderful progress in these areas and feel stronger through these situations. However I am frustrated and lonely. I am trying to improve myself and simultaneously trying to communicate changes I need her to make, feel my voids and lonliness in life, and having a hell of a time doing it.

I took a stand on piano recently that has locked us in a cycle of hot/cold anger. I set limits on how often and how long piano could be practiced and have ended practice early when she has gotten abusive with our daughter. The limits I set would be reasonable by most others standards and still show a support. It should be noted that my daughter loves piano and has no desire to quit, although she does not like the way mom treats her and ends up in her room every week crying from hurt feelings or punished by mom.

I feel like I should end piano because it is the main source of contention right now.. If one is going to suffer either way may as well remove the source. But stopping piano would be detrimental for my daughter who enjoys it.

There is no reasoning with my wife as far as I have been able to accomplish and will likely be an ''obstacle'' as she has put it, for the rest of our time together.

She refuses counseling, though she was the one to first demand it but quit as soon as the counselor focused on her instead of me. I find it to be much needed and don't know why I didn't think of this kind of therapy sooner......

It should be noted that the beginning of this week yelled at my daughter first thing in the morning. Yelled. Guess my daughter was hiding in her room for fun or sitting around instead of getting ready for school. But still. FIrst greeting in the morning. Followed by an hour of piano practice before school that wasn't satisfactory to her standards and was being overly critical. When the criticisms starting getting to my daughter to the point of whining/crying and focusing on the threats (no play dates) my wife hit her. I did not intervene until the 2nd time she hit her, multiple times for crying in the first place. I went in and ended the piano lesson and took my daughter to school. (I was home sick. Went to work in the afternoon) My daughter does her 2nd piano session after school 2+ hours every day, 7 days a week. (Until I set it at 6 days a week 2 hours tops. Im supportive) When I got home from work she was in her room from another session considered unsatisfactory with shredded paper everywhere. I thought she made a mess of her room. Turns out mom shredded every I-Love-You-Mommy letter my daughter had ever given her and dumped it in her room and said she didnt lover her if she didnt do what she said.
It is this kind of behavior towards her and towards me that is frequent and consistent and destructive, more than just being mad about something. I have had many times talked to her about how her actions have affected me and the family AND how she is responsible for her actions and feelings. She is an avoider when it comes to working things out AND she throws unrelated things in to spin it back on me. I learned recently to steer things back on topic but extended the opportunity for her to address those other 'issues' at a later time. EVERY time I have done this she said she did not want to talk about it. So I am at wits end, thinking I have done everything I could to try and make it work.
I dont want to end it. I am looking for coping strategies and perspective.
Too often today the solution is to just end the relationship and move on. In many cases that is applicable and that may be what is best in the end for me, but I do not wish to be the person who left when times got hard and if I just hung in there a little longer then understanding would have come, etc.

Theres more. Always more. But this should be enough to jump start what I need to here. Please be kind. I can handle bluntness but nothing mixed with condescending as I have seen on other sites threads. Thank you

[Lovee]

Wow, this really hits home. I grew up with a similar emotionally abusive household with my mother having the anger issue. I think it is important to separate the anger management and emotional abuse issue from "piano" which is not the issue, you child could be pushed around regardless if she continues with piano or joins a soccer team, your job as parents is to support her, and keep her safe. That means safe from emotional abuse. Anger is the worst, and I would only understand later, easy to control with simple techniques and practice. Life can be lived without anger! It is entirely possible. My mother lived with a physically abusive father who would let anger build and then explode. It was no wonder she had anxiety. She would seem out of control whenever she let loose with her anger. My father would have to restrain her and try to talk rationally til she calmed down. But he wouldn't say you need anger managent or therapy, he'd say you just need to eat something! Sometimes she would leave and drive off in her angry state and we'd worry. When we would be angry as kids, we would go to our rooms and no one could enter the space until we cooled down. I believed anger was an something I could escape from by running away, having my personal space, or eating something. These techniques helped but were not always practical, and almost ruined my relations with my inlaws who could see I had a problem. It was then I investigated other techniques on the Internet. I suggest you and your wife do the same. My husband had an abusive father who gradually changed by giving up alcohol. My husband decided he would never be abusive like that and uses all his will to control his anger. Together I've been learning it's possible to live without anger and emotional abuse. He will point out if I am not playing fair (name calling and other abuse he doesn't use) and I will admit I am wrong. You are in a unique position to protect your daughter and help your wife through this. You are welcome to add me as a support friend, let me know how it goes. Wishing you the best.

[wiffyatthehub]

stevens dear, first things first....protect your daughter, like lovee, i grew up with a rage-aholic, out of control, banging , slapping mother (her chldhood issues overflowing on me) daddy stepped in only once that i can think of and just said thats enough....i was about 13-14 and mother was yelling, ripping my posters off my wall and pounding me on the back. my daddy never really protected me from mother. he to was very passive, don't talk about it, don't see it, it does'nt exists. please protect your daughter....from someone who was in her shoes, that permiated thru my life as moms and dads have a great responsibily in caring for there children. its very hard dealing with someone who is irrational, timing is everything in trying to have conversation but even that won't work in some cases....you see i turned into what i vowed never to be....like my mom. alcohol sexual issues all played a part.....i'm grateful to say i am not that woman anymore.....many years of working on not drinking and then finally getting one on one therapy helped tremendously. i'm so sorry hun that your in such a situation, it really is fixable but it does take two to make a marrige work. i wish i had more to offer you dear, lovee has excellent advise and there are others in the group that can pass on their experience, strenght and hope. you may want to consider posting on other groups at well...anxiety, relationships, angermanagement to name a few....there may be others in the other communities on the site that could add some of their experiences.....can't get to much support honey, your in a various serious dilema......

[stevens]

Thank you for all the comments so far. Empathy and shared group experience can be a real strength in times like this. I am frustrated and can use a place to vent and get advice. I also feel to clarify because of comments from some of the other groups I joined on this site who were worried about offending me because of my comment near the end of the original post about not being condescending.......Im not easily offended and wont take offense at bluntness. Comment boards, especially on newspaper sites, have people calling other people names, making racist comments, or saying people shouldnt be allowed to breed etc. That was what I was hoping to avoid. The hard to hear stuff I can handle so no one need worry about that.
Nextly, what baffles me in my relationship, is what I perceive to be this lack of some moral compass when it comes to the stuff my spouse says and does. It is a difficult concept to explain but I recognize it in people in sociopaths and bi-polar disorders who use and abuse people but seem to not think it is wrong. However with her it is not the same. When she acts out and then acts like nothing is wrong next or feels justified on her actions that disbelief of hou could you do that is there but it does not feel the quite the same as what I see in others. She has a conscience and actually treats people quite well frequently. I suspect it is anger management issues and she will lash out at others first to avoid hurt or has simply lost it and has no filter on actions once she is flooded with emotion.
Our relationship problems are many and varied and have been there since we were dating. There is no substance abuse. She came from a troubled childhood of parents who fought and were unfaithful. She was also a rapists victim, and whatever else might be inherent in her personality. For this she has my unlimited empathy (though she has never noticed this nor would admit it if pointed out.) She did seek help prior to my ever meeting her for her rape, but has since given up and is angry with the world and refuses to seek help further or admit she has any problems.

I come from a very supportive family. I was a different kid growing up and so was singled out and picked in throughout school. Developing friendships was difficult though all that is behind me now. The result for me was being happy on my own most of the time but needing and craving affection and attention. Trust is hard for me because I let myself be used by people and I feel like I dont have a very good boundary system so I am very careful who I open up to to avoid being used by them.
However through therapy people who knew me as a kid would think Im a completely different person now in a positive way. My folks were my one source of consistent support for which I am grateful.
The difference between me and my wife is that I am getting help and working through the uncomfortable stuff. She is doing everything she can to avoid facing her issues. Piano has simply added to tension to already existing relationship dynamics. What frustrates me is that I want to show that I am supportive of the music talents of my daughter and time required to dedicate to it, but she keeps crossing all healthy boundaries of expectations and so I have to step in and set perspective and limits which she doesnt respond well too. Obviously.

1. I am struggling to try and meet family needs for all involved.
2. I am trying to ensure that I am an equal, my thinking still has me sacrificing my own well being to appease or accommodate others
3. She is a stubborn, obstinate, would rather see the whole thing burn then give in an inch, woman
4. I am angry with her and always anxious expecting the other shoe to drop/next storm to come through. I hate living like this and get swallowed up in the negative emotions.

Think thats good for this post. Someone please tell me how to post the same comments to all support groups. I joined different groups at different times. It would be nice to be able to not have to type the same things over and over. I know when you start a discussion you choose which groups but that didnt happen all at the same time. I can copy and paste but now that its all going Id like to group it all together on going.

[stevens]

Lovee, what were some of the simple techniques you referred too in your post about controlling responses to the anger? I could really use something.

One of the biggest aggravations is that I can never expect an honest answer from her when she is angry. When she isnt upset I can communicate with her, though she will still blame all of lifes problems on others and most often on me. But when she is angry if I were to point out the name calling, threats or destructive behavior it seems to almost encourage it more and I end up with something like what someone else in another discussion thread described as being beaten then asked why she made him beat her. There is no fighting fair with her.

Suggestions like holding my ground will be new territory for me. I have no idea what to expect really. I finally hit a point though, just a month ago in fact when I had finally had it and sat her down and told her I was upset. She started with avoidance and right into blame. When I didnt give in she tried to switch subjects blaming me for raping her several years ago (copped a feel and is in no way related to her very real rape at the hands of someone completely unknown to me) as a way to try and 'win' the argument rather then sit down and try to work out the real issues.
From that experience awakened something in me that I havent felt before, despite having suffered the exact same kind of treatment in the past. I finally felt sick of trying to understand or appease her and saw her clearly-- someone who is obviously hurting inside, but has no desire at this time to help themself. It was such a relief to finally know where the responsibility lay and having the strength to hold her to it.

This past month or so has seen some enormous but painful growth. I feel stronger and more free but at the same time see my relationship withering.
From there, I have taken what I needed emotionally by setting the boundaries for piano and what I am and am not willing to tolerated. Watching this play out has been incredibly uncomfortable since I dont know what to expect and do not wish to lose my family. Part of me inside craves the peace at home when she isnt around but the lonliness I feel from the loss of contact is stifling. Also, I would want to keep the kids, the home, and the family money to support them rather then losing the kids and paying her to raise them. That sounds selfish in print but it is how I feel. I selfishly dont want to be alone, but I also love my kids deeply and dont want to uproot them or myself when we are the victims of her bad choices.

Anyhoo. to wrap up. What simple techniques on anger handling?
The next tim I write will probably be in a new discussion thread so I can include all the groups I joined in in one post.Thank you all again.

[Lovee]

Important question first: does your wife see her anger as a problem? The important thing is not the techniques, but a willingness to make new practices when anger comes up. If you investigate together you can see what she'd be willing to try and remind her of it when she gets angry. Here are a few: Remind yourself to breathe and count to 10. Long deep breaths. What is upsetting? Will it matter in a month? A week? This put things in perspective. Spiritual practice like prayer and meditation are invaluable, even just taking time to de-stress every day (maybe with a cup of tea) is important. I like this quote: "When a thought of hatred comes, replace it with a stronger thought of love."
If your wife loves her daughter, and she must or she wouldn't even care about making the most of her talent, she must see when she mixes in even the slightest bit of anger it is like a poison hurting your girl and perverting her character to take on the same characteristic. Explore together healthy ways to encourage your daughter's love for piano, instead of destroying it with anger. Rewards and punishments can be used without anger to encourage desired behavior, but when anger is used all is lost. You are now teaching undesirable behavior.

[19558kanned]

Hi Stevens! I've read this over and over since you first posted it on Saturday and read what others have posted to you, but I couldn't seem to come up with the words that I wanted to say out of fear I would offend you and I don't want to do that because you're trying so hard to figure out what the answer is and how to make things better and get it straightened out for your family.

After thinking about this some more tonight, my message will be really short because the only thing I keep going back to is you have to do whatever it takes to protect your daughter. Children come first and like Kathy has given so many examples of, how your daughter is being treated will affect her for the rest of her life. I hope this gets stopped, it makes me really sad for your little girl.

I'm going to pray for all of you and hope changes can be made soon before any further emotional or physical harm comes to your daughter. Wishing you the very best outcome!!!