Gender Identitites

Lot of emotions right now. Been lonely all my life. Been ostracized, made fun of. Suffered through my parents’ brutal divorce, my father making me feel like a weakling and my mother, as my therapist said, emotionally abusing me. But she’s a good mother now, that’s what he said; that makes it alright. I was then essentially raised by my mother and sister. I was hooked onto movies with romance and the guy getting the girl and living happily ever after and built my childhood on the metric the movies provided: get a girlfriend by high school, like everyone else, lose your virginity about that time, maybe in college (men are shamed everyday in media depictions for being virgins. YES, this matters. In all fairness, women may also be equally shamed in some respects). You would find a girl, you’d fall in love, and it would be great. Meanwhile, I’d also attend a four-year university like my older sister; I had felt inferior to her in terms of brains and felt like I had to compensate for that.

Every time I see a woman or specifically a feminist comment in agreement with a grievance from a man, I feel intense anger: we (men) have been made to feel overwhelming loneliness our entire lives: cultural depictions, patriarchal society, men having to be “masculine” to earn a woman’s attention and their complacence and annoying ambivalence to men’s rigid gender identity (but then again, a woman can be as feminine as possible and it would be called a “strength”). Women are definitely complacent in objectifying men as protectors, job-getters, and sometimes punishing them for it; I sometimes wonder if that’s what happened with my parents’ marriage. The “liberation of women” where they seek higher-performing better-looking men, does not reverse how men are objectified for their power. So to get to the point, personally, I think I have had it with the inconsistency of women and their higher horse, and have no interest ever in a woman joining the men’s rights movement. “I didn’t know how bad it was for a man.” Tragic.

Men and women have worked to program men sexually to go after women online and in person through advertizing and, yes, movies and tv shows. Women forget that they, as fellow coworkers and executives, are partly responsible for the development of the masculine identity. That women have only relatively recently been allowed in top decisions for businesses and governments (more and more since the '60s, I believe) does not change how things were happened. Those who say this was just a patriarchal agenda to keep men and women in line in reality suggest a harsher crime committed by women: KNOWING that they were advertising and controlling men to be hypersexual was wrong, not just for women but for men and doing it anyway.

For me, my animus has gotten to the point that all gender clashes or differences I treat VERY seriously. There was a comedic video posted on reddit where a couple argues about what the problem is–she has a nail in her head. She then criticizes him for “explaining” the problem and not empathizing with her. Maybe a better man would find humor in that, but it filled me with rage. Men are always blamed. Always blamed. If the video is any testament to reality, women are AWFUL communicators. They variously laugh at, mock you, belittle you, scream at you, curse at you, pretend to be the victim. (No, by the way, I am not discounting actual experiences where women have been abused, raped, or murdered)

There are other sides too. My father more-or-leas embezzlement from his company, cheated on my mother with MULTIPLE women, and emotionally abused her. My uncle was seriously in debt due to bad spending habits, one of if not the critical factor in my aunt and uncle’s divorce. Another one of my uncles sometimes gave me the creeps. My grandfather, who raised my mother on a farm, apparently could be quite nasty to his children and still will be to my grandmother. At least my mother doesn’t tolerate that. Their bad behavior doesn’t justify my mother’s behavior nor the lack of male support in my life; my mother never let me explain ANY of my emotions. In any event, every male figure in my life has been compromised or had their image tarnished. Living with my mother, I knew a life of emotional abuse, neglect, guilt-tripping, complaining about my father, inconsistent behavior (she’s definitely ADHD or OCD, not to shame anyone who is), toxic perfectionism (the vacuum sweeping always had to be PERFECT).

Oh, and the tone deafness of women who tell men to get friends when they face extreme loneliness. Funny, a woman’s sexual adventures are always framed as empowering. I can’t speak for all men, but I HAVE been trying for YEARS to get friends, not including my unsuccessful attempts in primary school. Not a whole lot of success. I meet a couple people I talked to, even got a phone number from one male friend. Nothing long, long lasting. I resorted to an old friend from school not long ago but we aren’t great friends. Yet the gaping hole in my soul remains. “Get friends”–ladies, you pushed us to be masculine the way we pushed you to be feminine.

For me personally, I don’t think politics affects my situation much. I doubt overwhelmingly liberal women are being disinterested in me because they’re too depressed about the state of the country. I am liberal (don’t hate me), so I don’t think it’s some kind of backlash where women where divorcing their husband’s after the last election. Then again, the town I live in my slightly veer towards conservative.

I have stopped reading it in this part. Men and the society they built are the only responsibles for the problems they created and you mentioned, feeling lonely and such, its all mens fault and you cant change my mind about it. Im kinda glad people are talking about this now bc older generations are seeing the effects it all caused and hopefully it wont pass to younger generations, although i think its too late bc some people are already affected.
As a woman, i dont think being as feminine as possible is seeing as a “strength” in any way, shape or form.
I truly believe men made their image to being the go getters and providers, do you know why? Because they didnt allow women to do anything else but cook,get raped and have children for AGES.

Please explain like im five, how this works exactly? How women have any responsability on the development of the masculine identity.
I also dont know in which world you are living in, because from my experience women have always been slut shamed for sexual behaviours, its been changing in the past 10/15 years but its still seen by many people as a bad thing, whereas for men is the norm to have multiple sex partners, who are they sleeping with? Definitely not other men since being gay is also not good.
I dont understand your problem, besides being lonely and thinking its womens fault, from my point of view, correct me if im wrong but you seem to be putting the fault in the wrong place here, buddy…

2 Hearts

There are a lot of pretty unequivocal words in your screed: “any”, “awful”, “always”, “everyone”, “intense”, “overwhelming”, “definitely”, “extreme”, “overwhelmingly” … I may have missed some. You admit that you are writing this from a place of anger, which is never a good state in which to think clearly. If this is the way you are approaching the world I think you will find it hard to make or keep friends. You’re certainly not making any here!

I am truly sorry to hear that you had poor parenting and poor social connections growing up, but (put bluntly) moaning and complaining about that is not going to help. Try to see the world in less black-and-white / right-and-wrong terms with a sizeable dose of luck thrown in. Does that sound tone-deaf? If so, you can stop reading now. You have been unlucky, but claiming victimhood is likely to bring more “bad luck” your way.

Some women, like some men, are highly manipulative and judgemental when it comes to relationships. Most people are not. Many women and many men have been abused during their lives, and some of them end up bitter and anti-social (to say the least). You have a choice.

Best of luck, mate.

2 Hearts

I appreciate that you are trying to help. If you wouldn’t mind, I did write my thoughts to your response, I try to be more reasonable; at least you all are responding to what I’m saying.

Reading through my post again, I do sound very angry and frustrated. I have had a lot of trouble with anger recently; I am a member specifically of the sex addiction group; I suffer from paraphilic disorder–I get constant sexual thoughts from non-sexual things. It is not fun.

One thing you touch briefly is my poor time growing up; the words “emotional abuse” has seemed to fall on deaf ears; my therapists, my mother, you–nobody thinks of the full scope of my abuse. Not my mother yelling at me, my father scaring me, hurting me one time (I don’t know whether that was abuse), not everyone underestimating my autism (did I mention that I was autistic?), not my unhealthy obsessions with movies (could an internet search not yield that autistic people tend to obsess?). One of my therapists had the gall to respond to my “obsessive problems” by responding, “You know you autistics (or whatever word he used for people with autism) you just get so obsessed,” and then laughed at me. I am not officially disabled yet recently a family member taught me essentially that it was okay to consider myself disabled for the purposes of recognizing my pain. I have thought of myself as inherently inferior; when never truly accepted by your parents or loved by a girl, how does one manage to not feel this way? Is it wrong to think that I’m disabled, or else that if I’m disabled that I will be harder to love (possibly neurotypical) people, which may include women? But every one of those issues was allowed, like tumors, to grow.

In response to what the other comment said, yes, cultural depictions of men, the result of the patriarchy or not, contribute to inequality; portrayals of obligatory male heroism, falsehoods that “anyone can be accepted for who they are”, that the men always gets the girl, that the man is always supposed to be subservient to the girl ,that the man is supposed to buy things for her, “happy wife, happy life”, the man has to work for the family, that my sex addict father, who may have embezzled, emotionally abused my mother, cheated her, and made her feel threatened to the point she wanted to move to another state to get away from her–nevertheless it still seems a little unfair my mother does not really have to get a job, and my father claims he “has to work to support two homes” his and mine–especially now in his late 60s he has health problems. But maybe the last item meant I had a parent at home who was there for me, at least. It didn’t always help, including recently, that my OCD, talkaholic-seeming mother cannot stop talking, and it feels like the woman who couldn’t recognize her son’s own feelings is the only confidant I have. I do need someone who understands me, not someone who thinks, “Oh, but you’re all better now.” I’ve tried grappling with my emotional issues and abuse for years, but I continue to hate my mother, continue to get little of anything in dating. Even aside from a romantic POV, an autistic person is hard-pressed to find friends. I’m “high-functioning”, so I’m told; most people say they don’t know I’m autistic, yet the nerves, anxiety, and inability to discern social cues make socializing, so far, impossible or near impossible. If I didn’t have a sex addiction, I might be better able to rein in these feelings. I used to think autism led me to have those feelings in the first place. Maybe a problem was I was already used to being rejected for my feelings that by the time people asked more and my mother asked more, I closed up or responded negatively–and they did in kind. Can you really tell me, unless you’ve been abused (emotionally and consistently at minimum), that you would act differently?

If I crossed a line between reasonable anger and sexism/misogyny, I would genuinely like to know where it is to know better for the future. Maybe I overstated women’s role in creating masculinity, and denying women from men’s rights could have been vindictive–or bad identity politics. You may say men have trouble with that line; I concede men don’t know where that line is and are constantly in the dark about it–or at least it seems to me.

You say you don’t know what world I live in; I guess I also do not know yours. I admit I have been unclear on powerful slut-shaming culture is today. I never thought it was gone. My impression, and I still think this a day later after I’ve re-read my post and calmed down slightly, is that women themselves partially perpetuate “slut-shaming” culture by shaming each other. I don’t deny men started it.

I did forget to mention other issues that, if they don’t justify my thoughts and feelings, may at least add context. I am autistic and feel like I have been misunderstood my whole life. I also have sex addiction, specifically paraphilic disorder, which means I get attracted to inanimate, random things constantly. It is not fun.

Do I think women are responsible for the development of the masculine identity? Maybe, I had refused to give credit that women may have been acting in a patriarchal society and not their own beliefs. Pewsresearch says as of 2023, only 10% of CEOS in the Fortune 500 are female. Same website says it was very small until basically this point; it reached about 5% in 2017. I stand by that female businesswoman are responsible both on a moral limited scale in the high level and the lower levels, if they were on boards that certified unnecessarily sexually exploitive campaigns. People obviously do things for money, regardless of if it conflicts with their identity.

Advertising aside, do women choosing masculine partners reinforce the presence of the masculine identity? True, men choose to engage in it and belittle other men or women who do not conform to it. But that choice by itself would reinforce such an identity. Do men and women have in common they think the opposite gender goes only for the more attractive?

One thing I believe you did not take into consideration was the cultural depictions of men; portrayals of obligatory male macho heroism, falsehoods that “anyone can be accepted for who they are”, that the men always gets the girl, that the man is always supposed to be subservient to the girl he’s dating, that the man is supposed to buy things for her, “happy wife, happy life”, the man has to work for the family, that my sex addict father, who may have embezzled, emotionally abused my mother, cheated her, and made her feel threatened to the point she wanted to move to another state to get away from her–nevertheless it still seems a little unfair my mother does not really have to get a job, and my father claims he “has to work to support two homes” his and mine–especially now in his late 60s he has health problems. But maybe the last item meant I had a parent at home who was there for me, at least, and because I have distrusted both of my parents’ accounts of the divorce, I do not know much my father is accountable for.

One other thing is dating expectations for men. Patriarchy or not, this is real. We are expected to take women to fancy places, they are expected to pay for the women. And not always just on a first date either. A woman I dated asked me to bring her flowers for the second date; maybe it would’ve been better if I brought it on the first, but would you get the other way around? We are expected to show them, not just show each other, a good time. I don’t deny get a hard or harder time with the dangers of dating, but the fact that the problems may be different is enough to annoy men like me.

If you read this far, thanks for reading.

OK, I read it all and you’re welcome :slight_smile:

You did not mention autism or OCD in your first posting, but if you are suffering from those that would explain a lot. I can well understand your frustration that you aren’t getting the kind of relationships you would like in life.

For what it’s worth, you may find some useful support in the OCD group and the Autism group here at SG.

My advice (I am not a doctor) is to not ask “why am I this way?” too much. Focus on “how do I get better at relationships?”. People are complicated and often inexplicable. Relationships, since they involve two or more people, are much more complex and enigmatic. If your built-in ability to read social cues and intuit how to deal with people is faulty, you face a very steep learning curve.

Support groups (especially face-to-face ones) are very useful for practice. Seek them out, and try to surround yourself with people who are willing to (at least) try to understand your situation. I’m afraid it is probably too much to expect that the general public will have much to offer: many of them are fighting their own battles with themselves and their relationships, and are ill-equipped to wade into yours!

Sincerely wishing you good luck.

3 Hearts

Hey, this must be really painful for you to experience so much. Nobody deserves to be treated with abuse coming from anyone of your own league. But I’m glad your mother’s changed for the better. That’s a wonderful thing!

If I’m being correct, you’re angry because women celebrate for you (men) suffering from loneliness? Do you understand the reason why they had the audacity to be outspoken about this? You can explain whatever is you’re feeling and thinking. I want to know the resentment surging in your heart.

If the women objectified men into gaining dominance and power to provide care for them (women), but they’re scrutinized for taking opposite directions, then this commodity was ultimately responsible for your parents’ divorce? And if so, how were you able to come with this conclusion?

So, you’re stating that you have no interest in a woman who supports men’s rights? If that’s the case, why do you think it’s a crime for a woman who’s genuinely showing care for men that are suffering? What is your take on this?

Do you think men are conditioned into pursuing a sexual active lifestyle because of the reason? In some degree, yes, that’s the case, but if the attention the women gain is unwanted, then that’s a problem that needs resolving.

It’s not just women, but men as well. When growing up, your fathers from older generations expect you to be strong, not show any emotion, not be submissive, not show any sign of vulnerability, not show any liking for flowers, and chase hot women in the streets of Miami, or nightclubs. Those expectations can stick into your brain for a good amount of years. If those ideas should be the norm (feeling like you NEED to do that, and not feel that you don’t WANT to do that - Needing and wanting are two different things.), then of course you’re going to follow other men’s footsteps, because you feel like it should fulfill your destiny as a man, yourself. Otherwise, it’s always possible to live a passive life without a lover and have more opportunities to make life choices. That’s not to say that you don’t deserve to have a woman in your life - I’m explaining a whole different reality that is the current - our reality, our real world.

Are you implying that you’re against women topping in business and government positions? What negative side of this are you trying to amplify?

So, you believe that women have done the damage by controlling men to be hypersexual? Again, men are also equally responsible for the way what lifestyle men should have to follow. This is a vicious cycle that’s been repeating for centuries. Are you aware of this? Not that I’m disregarding the fact that women are prone to pressuring men into being “masculine”, I’m just saying what the other way is.

It’s not always the case. Men and women - they can also be at fault for anything. No matter the gender, it’s never right to wrongfully use the victim card to silence their own partners.

There’s no gender to define that is awful/better communicator. Each one of us is capable of how we interact with people - no one is an alien. There’s no difference.

That is correct - it’s never morally right to inflict harm on your off-springs. All of us can carry any type of trauma in us for the remainder of our lives, but we have two choices: 1) figure out how to properly heal; or, 2) don’t do anything and continue suffering as a broken individual who’s helpless and never see the light in the end of a pitch black tunnel. No-one’s forcing to choose the “right” option - you’ve been given a chance to turn your life around.

Any reasonable explanation? If you’re not comfortable answering this - say no!

It takes time and patience to make wonderful, great friends! I, as a woman, have only a few friends, in spite of my attempts of making more connections with people - I struggled with loneliness too. It’s never good. I’m not blaming you for being friendless - you have a hard time connecting with anyone on that level. It’s not permanent, I promise.

Reading your post, I can sense the huge bitterness you’ve been holding for a long time. It’s okay to feel angry - it’s normal, but I don’t suggest to project that onto others because that would get you into confrontations with them. What you need to, in this moment, is to understand why your negative energy can affect others, and if you’re able to stop yourself from doing it, simply learn how to improve your life for the better and find someone who’s able to talk you out of the current mindset you have. Best of luck!

2 Hearts