I see a lot of narcs being vilification on this page. The flaw I see in that, is that when you make the narc all bad, the victim by default is all good. And nobody believes they are all good and that the N is all bad.
It is far more helpful to understand a N treats you the way they believe you deserve to be treated. From this place you are both neutral and the treatment doesn't fit how you see yourself.
Hi there, thank you for posting this profound message. I think there is validity in what you pose. For example perhaps staying in a relationship with someone who is a narcissist, long after the warning flags were waving. The part though that I would debate is the narcissist parent to child relationship. A 4 year old can't really set boundaries for the narcissist parent, and by the time the child is old enough to understand that the way their parent is behaving is not normal, the pattern of abuse and dysfunction is often so deeply ingrained it is tough to get out. I feel like once the person does get away from it, part of the healing process if to allow oneself to feel the anger and rage that they were never "allowed" to show, kind of like a permission to feel again. What does the group think?
I have a child who has an abusive parent and he absolutely is allowed to show all of his feelings with me, including his feelings of love for the person who hurt him. I do my child a disservice if I vilify his dad. Because that is not in line with his feelings and he has all kinds of feelings. I think that the act of blaming another disempowers us to make better choices going forward. Kids don’t get to choose their parents but some have a bad parent and go on to have great relationships. They make peace with their parents flaws. You can’t make peace with a monster.
Amen
I would never advocate blaming the victim. I am more solution focused. "Now what?, what can I do now". You absolutely must end contact with anyone who is in anyway abusive. That's the healthy thing to do. I advocate responding to unhealthy in healthy ways. And I see so many people here saying where they are is unhealthy and they cannot leave. In these circumstances, you need 1st an escape plan, where that is not an option you need coping skills, not he's bad I'm good and nothing changes. There are real tools, like self advocacy and assertiveness that will build you up. I'm just so saddened by people who stay and feel hopeless, there is always opportunity to improve your circumstance and it is within your power to do so. There is so much great information, even on the Internet that will teach you how to get help for yourself and your children. I agree that an abuser is a monster, what I don't agree with is that being a point of resignation. It doesn't stop there. There is always a "now what".
@tabbylady a N wants you reading up on narcissism. They want you spending hours in support groups talking about them. They want to be the centre of your world. When we offer advice and that advice is about narcissistim, we are playing right into their hand. They would rather you get a PhD in narcissism than learn how to keep your own nose clean and prevent yourself from looking crazy to the police and your friends because then when you find out he’s abusing your kids he can’t accuse you of pas. However, if you take the same advice and change the wording to make it victim focused, you are demonstrating a new way of relating to a n that is not centred around them. We are all well intentioned here but that’s not good enough for me. I want us all to be successful. I want us talking about what is working for us in addition to offering support. Ideally I would love a community where we can challenge each other to change our language about violence and abuse to thus change our view
I really appreciate you sharing your story and engaging in debate with me. I want an open dialog about how best to help and I respect your experience and I know if I'm giving someone advice that you feel isn't right, i invite you to call me on it. I had this though percolating that something wasn't right in what I was seeing and I wanted to put it out there and hash it out.
@Yellowrose10 that is not the part that I was taking issue with. The free expression of the victims is always welcome. I have seen some “burn him at the stake” responses that I think are doing a disservice to the ones they are intended to help.
I don't agree with that at all. It kind of reminds me of being told, "I treat you like this because you deserve it," which is typical abuser lingo. You may not mean it that way, but that's how it strikes me. The people on this board were abused in horrible ways and, as YR and tabby said, allowing ourselves to be angry at our abusers is an important part of the healing process.
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Thank you for such an invigorating debate on this, i thoroughly am learning much from you all. @osmom, i think what you were saying about the action oriented solution focused means to coping is very valid, however we fall into the black and white thinking is we say 'all victims need to just make a choice and leave' or believe an issue is as simple as leaving and not looking back. I have seen parents have their children taken away and used as leverage by the narcissist getting authorities to believe crazy stories, family members barring other family from seeing or talking to children, unless homage is paid to them. Sometimes there is a very real reason for staying with the abuse, when the choice is between a rock and a hard place. What about a child who grows up with only one parent who is a narcissist, and ends up marrying one? do they know better? what if anger is an important first step in change? anger is neither good nor bad, what we choose to do with the anger is the key to it all. If anger is the seed to positive change, is anger okay then? if we use anger only as a means to vent without the push for healing and change, then that would be a shame. Thoughts?
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